Highlights:
• Character vs plot driven
• Intentionally focused on the human condition and the transformations therein.
• Often considered “classic” (but maybe only due to the archaic styles used).
• Lower marketing value – hard sell.
My additional take:
• Writing that draws attention to itself and in doing so, the author.
• • Which conflicts with well done genre fiction which should vanish in lieu of the story.
• Writing that must be consumed at a slower pace due to its use of more complex sentence structure.
• Elevated craft writing.
** Book Pricing **
The only reason I buy a book (ebooks only) these days is to support an associate author. I may not even read it. But, I can support, through a cup of coffee (~about) a fellow “friend” author.
I don’t even read anymore. I listen to whatever audiobooks are available through my library—and can barely get through 30 minutes a night before falling asleep.
Your first bullet under “additional take” is an interesting one that lurked in the back of my mind while we were discussing this. I wasn’t sure exactly how to describe it but you did.
It depends on how much and in what way the writing draws attention to itself. It’s possible to choose words that create striking but genre-appropriate images in the reader’s mind without reminding them they’re reading a story.
I just finished reading 12 books of what I think is literary fiction. They had passages of untranslated French, quotes from classic literature, intellectual musings, and a great focus on characters. The writing was, however, mundane, and the plot was essentially that of a soap opera. Go figure. Reviews forthcoming on my blog.
As for pricing, almost all of my books are at full price on Amazon outside of the U.S., and I have found that $.99 does not sell any more books than full price, so I price my ebooks by length, from $.99 for a short novella up to $4.99 for my two 350K word novels. I make maybe $150 or so a year on them.
Since the amount of money I might make selling books would not change my financial condition in the least, there’s no reason not to sell them at my cost, i.e. for free and let their price do all the promoting. A lot of people won’t buy a free book for the reasons you guys mentioned, but there is an audience that will, and who appreciate it.
They reserve the option to match the price on other stores, whatever the price. I think the way people get them to sell the first book in a series for free is by having it free on another store. I used to email them links to the other stores were my books are free, and ask them to reduce my books to free. Now I don’t bother, since Amazon is not that big of a market for me. They don’t price match all of my books, and some books go back and forth between free and full price, seemingly on a whim.
As I went to college and grad school to learn the craft of literary fiction, I watched the video chat with a great deal of interest. Coincidentally, there was a discussion in my prose critique group last night about how short stories in literary magazines no longer hold people’s interest. Something seems to have changed. It could be the MFAing of literary fiction, although I’ve encountered a number of calls for submission that specify they do NOT want any MFA stories (defined as fiction revised of any life, voice, or originality to keep all of the critiquing workshop members happy, who of course gave contradictory advice/dicta.)
Regarding the attention to language in literary fiction, I was taught to avoid using language for its own sake to call attention to the writer, what the prof called “Look, Ma, I’m writing!” Instead, I try to focus on how language, including the cadence and sound of a sentence, can be used to reveal or reinforce character and theme.
Now, that I’m writing longer form fiction, I’m paying much more attention to plot than when I wrote only short stories. In fact, the plot of my first novel was episodic, and it failed miserably. I ended up cannibalizing it for short stories.
I love “Look, Ma, I’m writing!” I know what you mean about overdoing language. We who have been exposed to all kinds of advice about avoiding certain types of words are susceptible to that. We don’t want the reader to disengage from the plot because they’re too busy admiring the vivid nouns and powerful verbs. It’s sort of like losing track of the dialogue in a play because you’re distracted by the actors’ costumes.
I sometimes feel I owe an apology to all the MFAs out there for how I comment on MFA style. But … I don’t mean to criticize the writers. They, like the rest of us, have found their path to writing and publishing and I can’t criticize that.
But frequently, I do feel like it is akin to your statement, “Look Ma, I’m writing!” And that’s why I don’t have much interest in reading MFA-style fiction. You still need a story and characters and a thread. Frequently, when I used to read Glimmer Train, there was no story, no thread, just a couple of characters deep inside their own heads and wandering through the scene of their lives. Which leaves me back at your point, it’s writing for the sake of writing. And literary critics seem to eat that stuff up.
I subscribed to Glimmer Train until they stopped publishing. To me, the quality of the stories deteriorated as the years went by. Many times, I would get to the end of a story and say, “That’s it?” From what I’ve observed working in higher ed, literary criticism has become nearly indistinguishable from sociology. At this point in my life, I just want to tell my characters’ stories in a way that does them justice, so readers will care about them, too.
A fascinating discussion. I really liked the point that literary fiction includes a refined, beautiful use of language that is worth reading based on its own merits. That said, I don’t think that’s enough anymore, and that truly good, successful literary fiction also needs compelling characters and an engaging story. I love those kinds of books where beautiful language meets wonderful stories.
And the discussion on pricing validated many of my thoughts. I very rarely buy ebooks over $8.00, and only if a book is getting thousands of fabulous reviews. Most ebooks that I purchase are between 2.99 and 4.99. Most of my books are broad, and I’ve toyed with going back to KU. I’m at an age now where I’ve given up on making a fortune (hehe) and it’s more important for me to be read.
As I replied to another comment … you are spot on about what literary fiction needs to do. It still needs characters and a story and a thread that ties it all together. A lot of literary fiction that is published in literary journals doesn’t seem to have that.
The book I reread often is Anne of Green Gables and I am never disappointed.
I also reread Jane Austen from time to time but not lately. I am always amazed at her writing, her characters, and her sharp wit. I agree there are so many books to read that there isn’t time to reread. The biggest disappointment for me was Catcher in the Rye, which I finally read three years ago and didn’t care for. I did however like The Great Gatsby, which I have read twice. A great discussion.
Writers Supporting Writers 
** Literary fiction **
Highlights:
• Character vs plot driven
• Intentionally focused on the human condition and the transformations therein.
• Often considered “classic” (but maybe only due to the archaic styles used).
• Lower marketing value – hard sell.
My additional take:
• Writing that draws attention to itself and in doing so, the author.
• • Which conflicts with well done genre fiction which should vanish in lieu of the story.
• Writing that must be consumed at a slower pace due to its use of more complex sentence structure.
• Elevated craft writing.
** Book Pricing **
The only reason I buy a book (ebooks only) these days is to support an associate author. I may not even read it. But, I can support, through a cup of coffee (~about) a fellow “friend” author.
I don’t even read anymore. I listen to whatever audiobooks are available through my library—and can barely get through 30 minutes a night before falling asleep.
LikeLiked by 4 people
Your first bullet under “additional take” is an interesting one that lurked in the back of my mind while we were discussing this. I wasn’t sure exactly how to describe it but you did.
LikeLiked by 2 people
It depends on how much and in what way the writing draws attention to itself. It’s possible to choose words that create striking but genre-appropriate images in the reader’s mind without reminding them they’re reading a story.
LikeLiked by 3 people
An interesting conversation and comments.
I just finished reading 12 books of what I think is literary fiction. They had passages of untranslated French, quotes from classic literature, intellectual musings, and a great focus on characters. The writing was, however, mundane, and the plot was essentially that of a soap opera. Go figure. Reviews forthcoming on my blog.
As for pricing, almost all of my books are at full price on Amazon outside of the U.S., and I have found that $.99 does not sell any more books than full price, so I price my ebooks by length, from $.99 for a short novella up to $4.99 for my two 350K word novels. I make maybe $150 or so a year on them.
Since the amount of money I might make selling books would not change my financial condition in the least, there’s no reason not to sell them at my cost, i.e. for free and let their price do all the promoting. A lot of people won’t buy a free book for the reasons you guys mentioned, but there is an audience that will, and who appreciate it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
So Amazon doesn’t have a problem with the fact that your ebooks are free at Smashwords?
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They reserve the option to match the price on other stores, whatever the price. I think the way people get them to sell the first book in a series for free is by having it free on another store. I used to email them links to the other stores were my books are free, and ask them to reduce my books to free. Now I don’t bother, since Amazon is not that big of a market for me. They don’t price match all of my books, and some books go back and forth between free and full price, seemingly on a whim.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Good to know this, Chuck. Thanks!
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As I went to college and grad school to learn the craft of literary fiction, I watched the video chat with a great deal of interest. Coincidentally, there was a discussion in my prose critique group last night about how short stories in literary magazines no longer hold people’s interest. Something seems to have changed. It could be the MFAing of literary fiction, although I’ve encountered a number of calls for submission that specify they do NOT want any MFA stories (defined as fiction revised of any life, voice, or originality to keep all of the critiquing workshop members happy, who of course gave contradictory advice/dicta.)
Regarding the attention to language in literary fiction, I was taught to avoid using language for its own sake to call attention to the writer, what the prof called “Look, Ma, I’m writing!” Instead, I try to focus on how language, including the cadence and sound of a sentence, can be used to reveal or reinforce character and theme.
Now, that I’m writing longer form fiction, I’m paying much more attention to plot than when I wrote only short stories. In fact, the plot of my first novel was episodic, and it failed miserably. I ended up cannibalizing it for short stories.
LikeLiked by 3 people
I love “Look, Ma, I’m writing!” I know what you mean about overdoing language. We who have been exposed to all kinds of advice about avoiding certain types of words are susceptible to that. We don’t want the reader to disengage from the plot because they’re too busy admiring the vivid nouns and powerful verbs. It’s sort of like losing track of the dialogue in a play because you’re distracted by the actors’ costumes.
LikeLiked by 3 people
I sometimes feel I owe an apology to all the MFAs out there for how I comment on MFA style. But … I don’t mean to criticize the writers. They, like the rest of us, have found their path to writing and publishing and I can’t criticize that.
But frequently, I do feel like it is akin to your statement, “Look Ma, I’m writing!” And that’s why I don’t have much interest in reading MFA-style fiction. You still need a story and characters and a thread. Frequently, when I used to read Glimmer Train, there was no story, no thread, just a couple of characters deep inside their own heads and wandering through the scene of their lives. Which leaves me back at your point, it’s writing for the sake of writing. And literary critics seem to eat that stuff up.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I subscribed to Glimmer Train until they stopped publishing. To me, the quality of the stories deteriorated as the years went by. Many times, I would get to the end of a story and say, “That’s it?” From what I’ve observed working in higher ed, literary criticism has become nearly indistinguishable from sociology. At this point in my life, I just want to tell my characters’ stories in a way that does them justice, so readers will care about them, too.
LikeLiked by 2 people
That’s exactly how I felt reading Glimmer Train. Story after story.
I’m with you. I just want to put my character(s) in a situation and tell the story that creates.
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Yes, all those words of advice about which words to avoid can result in tying the language up in knots trying to avoid them.
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A fascinating discussion. I really liked the point that literary fiction includes a refined, beautiful use of language that is worth reading based on its own merits. That said, I don’t think that’s enough anymore, and that truly good, successful literary fiction also needs compelling characters and an engaging story. I love those kinds of books where beautiful language meets wonderful stories.
And the discussion on pricing validated many of my thoughts. I very rarely buy ebooks over $8.00, and only if a book is getting thousands of fabulous reviews. Most ebooks that I purchase are between 2.99 and 4.99. Most of my books are broad, and I’ve toyed with going back to KU. I’m at an age now where I’ve given up on making a fortune (hehe) and it’s more important for me to be read.
Thanks for the great discussion!
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As I replied to another comment … you are spot on about what literary fiction needs to do. It still needs characters and a story and a thread that ties it all together. A lot of literary fiction that is published in literary journals doesn’t seem to have that.
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I think that’s why it’s fallen out of favor among mainstream readers. For me, there’s nothing like a great story that also beautifully written.
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Thanks for contributing your thoughts, Diana!
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The book I reread often is Anne of Green Gables and I am never disappointed.
I also reread Jane Austen from time to time but not lately. I am always amazed at her writing, her characters, and her sharp wit. I agree there are so many books to read that there isn’t time to reread. The biggest disappointment for me was Catcher in the Rye, which I finally read three years ago and didn’t care for. I did however like The Great Gatsby, which I have read twice. A great discussion.
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