if you’ve made a stylistic, vocabulary, structural, or editorial change with the slightest inclination that said change will make your work more palatable to others, yet you state you “write for yourself”, I call bullshit. If you’ve published anything, then in the back of your mind, you undoubtedly knew you were not just writing for yourself. Writing for yourself would be like JD Salinger trashing his final works — where no one ever read them. (Currently still a mystery.)
i do like Mark’s answer. “Can I climb this mountain?” Of course I’d do that solely for myself. Can I write a story about a man that falls in love with a pigeon? (Tesla) If I did I’d certainly not write that for you. But, if while writing it, I considered certain treatments in light of your (John Q. Public’s) sensibilities, then, although I started out writing for myself, I ended up writing for you.
I suppose one could argue the act of writing something, or putting it into words in any form, makes it in a sense “for someone else,” even if you never publish it at all. Communication is intrinsically premised on the concept of some “other” with whom to communicate. After all, isn’t the point of words to communicate concepts, feelings, ideas etc. to an audience? I’ve been reading a lot of meme theory lately, and at a certain point, the whole concept of what a “self” is gets rather fuzzy…
Or you could write something for yourself and then decide to publish it, whereupon you polish it up while putting yourself in the place of a theoretical reader.
Let’s not forget that we’re all readers as well as writers so play both roles. The first draft is for your writer self; subsequent ones are for your reader self, followed by any other readers, actual or theoretical.
When I first started writing, I had no idea if I would pursue publishing because I had no idea if I could actually do it. And produce a story worth publishing.
Now, I assume that everything I write will be published, whether on my website or in book form eventually. But … I don’t know that I ever put myself in the place of a theoretical reader, even when editing. Trying to figure out what that would look like or feel like.
I get your communication point. And perhaps the written word was originally destined to others. But I’ve got reams of notebooks with secreted thoughts filling their pages. They exist as evidence of me working out concepts and intrigues for their own sake. Never will they be witnessed by another. Words are tools of thought in this regard, like sketches in the sand of a castle that will never be built.
Like most of you guys, except Mark, I write to please myself – for two reasons. The first is that it’s an audience I know how to please. That makes writing easy. And the second is that doing anything else would be work, and writing is a hobby, not a job for me.
I have made minor changes at my wife or my beta readers’ suggestions – when I have no strong opinion on the issue they raised. Am I compromising my vision by pleasing someone other than myself? No. I’m always happy with any change I make, or I wouldn’t make it – I still write “Joe and I” rather than “Joe and me” over the objections of my wife, who assures me “Joe and me” is the proper form. It just sounds wrong to my ear. I also end sentences in prepositions. I think. I’m not quite sure what they are. But I put commas where anyone tells me to.
I read only books with pleasant main characters. Why should I hang out with jerks when I don’t have to.? I read for escape. Likewise I write only pleasant characters because they live in my head for many months at a time. Who want’s jerks in you head?
I try to make my characters normal people, so I usually don’t give them major flaws or traumas to work out in the story. But I usually don’t get deep into their minds either, so who knows what their darkest secrets are? And I’m a benevolent god – they may have unpleasant adventures, but I don’t torturer them. I don’t think that they have to be perfect to win the day – just not stupid. My characters are cautious enough, and smart enough to either avoid or get out of trouble alive, and largely unscathed. I have a strong opinion that you can write an entertaining story with only everyday hassles – no great drama or evil villains needed – and I’m going to try to prove that.
This was a very enjoyable discussion, with many good points raised. To the question of whom I write to please, I would say that for a long time, I wrote to please myself and others in equal measure. In recent years, I would say I write to please the characters (once they’ve been fully developed). It’s an odd feeling trying to please people who don’t actually exist as if they did.
I’ll make changes on a draft when the person giving the feedback has approached the story on its own terms. When feedback is, in essence, you should write the story the way I would have written it, the feedback goes in one ear and out the other.
A great conversation and lots to think about. I write to please children and those who are young at heart. I write books I would have read as a kid but for modern day children. If I write to please the parents, the kids won’t like the books. And I truly believe the characters need to have flaws and not be perfect. No kid will be interested in reading about a perfect kid. My character does some things that she shouldn’t, but that’s what makes her real and readers can identify with her.
Writers Supporting Writers 
Write for yourself or others?
if you’ve made a stylistic, vocabulary, structural, or editorial change with the slightest inclination that said change will make your work more palatable to others, yet you state you “write for yourself”, I call bullshit. If you’ve published anything, then in the back of your mind, you undoubtedly knew you were not just writing for yourself. Writing for yourself would be like JD Salinger trashing his final works — where no one ever read them. (Currently still a mystery.)
i do like Mark’s answer. “Can I climb this mountain?” Of course I’d do that solely for myself. Can I write a story about a man that falls in love with a pigeon? (Tesla) If I did I’d certainly not write that for you. But, if while writing it, I considered certain treatments in light of your (John Q. Public’s) sensibilities, then, although I started out writing for myself, I ended up writing for you.
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Now that you have set me thinking about it…
I suppose one could argue the act of writing something, or putting it into words in any form, makes it in a sense “for someone else,” even if you never publish it at all. Communication is intrinsically premised on the concept of some “other” with whom to communicate. After all, isn’t the point of words to communicate concepts, feelings, ideas etc. to an audience? I’ve been reading a lot of meme theory lately, and at a certain point, the whole concept of what a “self” is gets rather fuzzy…
LikeLiked by 3 people
Or you could write something for yourself and then decide to publish it, whereupon you polish it up while putting yourself in the place of a theoretical reader.
Let’s not forget that we’re all readers as well as writers so play both roles. The first draft is for your writer self; subsequent ones are for your reader self, followed by any other readers, actual or theoretical.
LikeLiked by 4 people
When I first started writing, I had no idea if I would pursue publishing because I had no idea if I could actually do it. And produce a story worth publishing.
Now, I assume that everything I write will be published, whether on my website or in book form eventually. But … I don’t know that I ever put myself in the place of a theoretical reader, even when editing. Trying to figure out what that would look like or feel like.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I get your communication point. And perhaps the written word was originally destined to others. But I’ve got reams of notebooks with secreted thoughts filling their pages. They exist as evidence of me working out concepts and intrigues for their own sake. Never will they be witnessed by another. Words are tools of thought in this regard, like sketches in the sand of a castle that will never be built.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Like most of you guys, except Mark, I write to please myself – for two reasons. The first is that it’s an audience I know how to please. That makes writing easy. And the second is that doing anything else would be work, and writing is a hobby, not a job for me.
I have made minor changes at my wife or my beta readers’ suggestions – when I have no strong opinion on the issue they raised. Am I compromising my vision by pleasing someone other than myself? No. I’m always happy with any change I make, or I wouldn’t make it – I still write “Joe and I” rather than “Joe and me” over the objections of my wife, who assures me “Joe and me” is the proper form. It just sounds wrong to my ear. I also end sentences in prepositions. I think. I’m not quite sure what they are. But I put commas where anyone tells me to.
I read only books with pleasant main characters. Why should I hang out with jerks when I don’t have to.? I read for escape. Likewise I write only pleasant characters because they live in my head for many months at a time. Who want’s jerks in you head?
I try to make my characters normal people, so I usually don’t give them major flaws or traumas to work out in the story. But I usually don’t get deep into their minds either, so who knows what their darkest secrets are? And I’m a benevolent god – they may have unpleasant adventures, but I don’t torturer them. I don’t think that they have to be perfect to win the day – just not stupid. My characters are cautious enough, and smart enough to either avoid or get out of trouble alive, and largely unscathed. I have a strong opinion that you can write an entertaining story with only everyday hassles – no great drama or evil villains needed – and I’m going to try to prove that.
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I’ve come to know several of your characters, and quite enjoyed spending time with them.
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It’s always fun when you can find a good preposition to end a sentence with.
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I guess I always have to be the oddball! 😉
I agree with you about suggested edits … if I don’t feel strongly about it, sure, why not?
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This was a very enjoyable discussion, with many good points raised. To the question of whom I write to please, I would say that for a long time, I wrote to please myself and others in equal measure. In recent years, I would say I write to please the characters (once they’ve been fully developed). It’s an odd feeling trying to please people who don’t actually exist as if they did.
I’ll make changes on a draft when the person giving the feedback has approached the story on its own terms. When feedback is, in essence, you should write the story the way I would have written it, the feedback goes in one ear and out the other.
LikeLiked by 4 people
A great conversation and lots to think about. I write to please children and those who are young at heart. I write books I would have read as a kid but for modern day children. If I write to please the parents, the kids won’t like the books. And I truly believe the characters need to have flaws and not be perfect. No kid will be interested in reading about a perfect kid. My character does some things that she shouldn’t, but that’s what makes her real and readers can identify with her.
LikeLiked by 2 people