• Foundational vs targeted education — good points there.
• Frame of mind during education seems like a trend: hated conventional education writing curriculums yet embraced later review of the same materials.
• Exposure to tropes either through life experience or reading seems critical in formulating a base from which to derive new ideas and tangential story threads.
• What seems missing is the perseverance required to drive any type of writing skills progress forward. Maybe an insatiable need to tell stories? Or to communicate, through fiction, one’s vision of alternate pasts, presents or futures?
Regarding the massive industry devoted to “Learn to write”: the one theme that seems at the core of any success in this realm is the critique of one’s own work. Reading or hearing others’ opinions on what good writing sounds like impacts few writers. Reflecting on direct criticism of one’s work appears to be the only way to truly progress. And that means practice, and more so, learning to take the heat of critique, often scathing, hopefully useful. And the only way to get critiqued, is, as Audrey pointed out, dependent upon gathering a network of folk willing to read your work.
An insatiable need to tell stories is an important ingredient for actually doing any writing. It’s great when a story drives the writer, rather than the other way around.
One thing about exposing your writing to the opinions of others is figuring out which pieces of advice are valid and which you can ignore. There is a phase during which you think you have to tweak your writing in response to every opinion expressed by your critique group, and it just isn’t so.
I agree with the value of others’ opinions and being open to direct criticism. Also, the value of practice. The simple reality is that the more one writes, the better one should get. Right? Hopefully? Maybe?
To answer Mark’s question, my formal education in fiction-writing made all the difference for me, in large part because I had a first-rate professor (Tony Ardizzone) for undergrad. I took short story and craft courses and a series of workshops. I learned about verisimilitude in dialog, story unity, point of view, the difference between sentimentality and genuine emotion in poetry and fiction, characterisation and the roles different types of characters (round, flat, “spear carriers”) contribute to a story, how setting contributes to a story, and so on and so on.
The premise behind the workshops was that it is easier for beginning writers to recognize flaws in someone else’s story than their own, which I found to be the case. However, sitting through “critiques” by people who knew as little as I did weren’t particularly helpful.
All of that said, Tony did make a point of saying at the beginning that going through formal education in writing wasn’t a necessity to learn what he would teach us. It was a shortcut.
My grad school education in fiction-writing set me up to learn how to revise my work. I came to the conclusion at the end of it that I understood all the craft elements–what I needed was to sit my butt in the chair and write, write, write. More workshops weren’t going to help, and I never wanted to take another one.
Lots of good points here, Liz! I’m almost wishing I had your experience, but when I was in undergrad, I wasn’t thinking about writing fiction. Archaeology was my field then, and eventually I ended up becoming a librarian.
It occurs to me that some folks keep taking courses and participating in other writing-related group events as a substitute for actually writing. As you say, in the end what matters is sitting down and writing.
Liz thr… thank you for the response. Sometimes in these video chats I can say thinks more absolutely than I really believe them to be. As I just replied to another comment … we all learn in different ways, find value in different methods. I’m thrilled for you that you found so much value and assistance in the path you took.
I enjoyed hearing everyone’s experiences in becoming writers. Perhaps unstated, but critical is that we find writing fun and rewarding in and of itself.
A great discussion. I love attending writer’s conferences and learn something every time. I don’t have a formal education and consider myself self-educated. I read everything I can about a subject. I have read many books on writing, and have attended continuing education classes and workshops over the years. They have all helped me become a better writer. I think for a writer, education is on-going. Of course, education is only part of the recipe. You do need a vivid imagination, determination, and plenty of practice!
I agree wholeheartedly that a writer’s education is ongoing. I’ve recently ventured into microfiction. It’s such a slippery beast, I just bought a book about it, which I’m now reading hoping to gain some insight about the form, how it works, and when it doesn’t.
Writers Supporting Writers 
• Foundational vs targeted education — good points there.
• Frame of mind during education seems like a trend: hated conventional education writing curriculums yet embraced later review of the same materials.
• Exposure to tropes either through life experience or reading seems critical in formulating a base from which to derive new ideas and tangential story threads.
• What seems missing is the perseverance required to drive any type of writing skills progress forward. Maybe an insatiable need to tell stories? Or to communicate, through fiction, one’s vision of alternate pasts, presents or futures?
Regarding the massive industry devoted to “Learn to write”: the one theme that seems at the core of any success in this realm is the critique of one’s own work. Reading or hearing others’ opinions on what good writing sounds like impacts few writers. Reflecting on direct criticism of one’s work appears to be the only way to truly progress. And that means practice, and more so, learning to take the heat of critique, often scathing, hopefully useful. And the only way to get critiqued, is, as Audrey pointed out, dependent upon gathering a network of folk willing to read your work.
Maybe that the the crucial key here.
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An insatiable need to tell stories is an important ingredient for actually doing any writing. It’s great when a story drives the writer, rather than the other way around.
One thing about exposing your writing to the opinions of others is figuring out which pieces of advice are valid and which you can ignore. There is a phase during which you think you have to tweak your writing in response to every opinion expressed by your critique group, and it just isn’t so.
LikeLiked by 4 people
I agree with the value of others’ opinions and being open to direct criticism. Also, the value of practice. The simple reality is that the more one writes, the better one should get. Right? Hopefully? Maybe?
LikeLiked by 1 person
To answer Mark’s question, my formal education in fiction-writing made all the difference for me, in large part because I had a first-rate professor (Tony Ardizzone) for undergrad. I took short story and craft courses and a series of workshops. I learned about verisimilitude in dialog, story unity, point of view, the difference between sentimentality and genuine emotion in poetry and fiction, characterisation and the roles different types of characters (round, flat, “spear carriers”) contribute to a story, how setting contributes to a story, and so on and so on.
The premise behind the workshops was that it is easier for beginning writers to recognize flaws in someone else’s story than their own, which I found to be the case. However, sitting through “critiques” by people who knew as little as I did weren’t particularly helpful.
All of that said, Tony did make a point of saying at the beginning that going through formal education in writing wasn’t a necessity to learn what he would teach us. It was a shortcut.
My grad school education in fiction-writing set me up to learn how to revise my work. I came to the conclusion at the end of it that I understood all the craft elements–what I needed was to sit my butt in the chair and write, write, write. More workshops weren’t going to help, and I never wanted to take another one.
LikeLiked by 4 people
Lots of good points here, Liz! I’m almost wishing I had your experience, but when I was in undergrad, I wasn’t thinking about writing fiction. Archaeology was my field then, and eventually I ended up becoming a librarian.
It occurs to me that some folks keep taking courses and participating in other writing-related group events as a substitute for actually writing. As you say, in the end what matters is sitting down and writing.
LikeLiked by 4 people
Thank you, Audrey! You could be right about people taking writing courses and workshops to avoid writing “the shitty first draft.”
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Liz thr… thank you for the response. Sometimes in these video chats I can say thinks more absolutely than I really believe them to be. As I just replied to another comment … we all learn in different ways, find value in different methods. I’m thrilled for you that you found so much value and assistance in the path you took.
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You’re welcome, Mark. I was fortunate to have the right teacher at the right time.
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As with so many things, that seems to be the key, doesn’t it? I never had that person.
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Absolutely. (And I don’t take it for granted!)
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I enjoyed hearing everyone’s experiences in becoming writers. Perhaps unstated, but critical is that we find writing fun and rewarding in and of itself.
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You’re absolutely right, Chuck! The reason I keep writing is that it is fun and rewarding in and of itself.
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A great discussion. I love attending writer’s conferences and learn something every time. I don’t have a formal education and consider myself self-educated. I read everything I can about a subject. I have read many books on writing, and have attended continuing education classes and workshops over the years. They have all helped me become a better writer. I think for a writer, education is on-going. Of course, education is only part of the recipe. You do need a vivid imagination, determination, and plenty of practice!
LikeLiked by 2 people
I agree wholeheartedly that a writer’s education is ongoing. I’ve recently ventured into microfiction. It’s such a slippery beast, I just bought a book about it, which I’m now reading hoping to gain some insight about the form, how it works, and when it doesn’t.
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My dad used to say that the day your stop learning is the day you die.
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A wise man, your dad.
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I totally agree with this. But … I think there are as many different ways to learn as there are people on this planet.
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Exactly!!
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